Fatal Frame IV Revealed ( Wii Xclusive, Suda 51, Published By Nintendo)

[valius]

Originally Posted by Juno

WHAT? Have you playing DOA4? It's bloody difficult.

Fighting games are only as hard as the human opponent you're playing against. CPU opponents don't help you truly get better at beating people. :P What fighting CPUs become is exploiting the weaknesses in the AI over and over again to win.

DOA4 is considered more casual because it's not as "technical" as other 3D fighting games like Virtua Fighter, Tekken, and Soul Calibur (the three games which have a scene in arcade and console)

[Juno]

Originally Posted by valius

Fighting games are only as hard as the human opponent you're playing against. CPU opponents don't help you truly get better at beating people. :P What fighting CPUs become is exploiting the weaknesses in the AI over and over again to win.

Well it's kinda hard to exploit the weakness of a character than can kill you in three combos which it will pull off in quick succession unless you're lucky and it can vanish into thin air half way through you performing a combo on it. Plus the CPU learns the moves you use against it so you have to vary and learn to block and counter with lightning fast reflexes even on the easiest setting.

[Darth Daver]

I'd really like a scary game that you could play co-op. Sometimes scary games just get too scary :s

I'm glad the Wii is getting this though. I though RE4 worked amazingly well on the Wii and hopefully this will too.

[codenamelenny]

Originally Posted by valius

I too am in the "never played" boat, but the game's concept and scariness have convinced me to get this game to bring "fear" to my Wii. If the controls are done right and the graphics look good...

agreed. But I have faith in it cause suda is directing.

[valius]

Stuff about fighting games:

Originally Posted by Juno

Well it's kinda hard to exploit the weakness of a character than can kill you in three combos which it will pull off in quick succession unless you're lucky and it can vanish into thin air half way through you performing a combo on it. Plus the CPU learns the moves you use against it so you have to vary and learn to block and counter with lightning fast reflexes even on the easiest setting.

No, that'd exceed the abilities of AI at this point in time. The CPU usually READS your controller and performs the move that counteracts that move, so it's an illusion of being more difficult, when in all actuality, the computer is simply performing moves counter to the ones you input the minute you input it. This is why sometimes beating the AI is simply spamming the punch or kick button (depending on your fighter of choice) over and over or just waiting for the AI to do a move and attack them.

Playing CPU does help reflexes and keeping the muscle memory for special moves... but it won't teach you how to form strategies against a real human opponent and the mindgames that you'd be using. Is she going to use that combo that ends with a low... oh wait, she ended with a mid! If I rush, he'll just use that dive move to knock me down again, so I have to use another way to close the distance.

You only truly get better by playing effective human opponents who can reason against your strats and you theirs.

on-topic:

Fatal Frame looks like a one-player adventure with a plot revolving around a single character, so I don't know about co-op. Unless they do it the Mario Galaxy way!

[ltzasz]

Never played Fatal Frame, I'll probably check this out for the summer drought.

About fighting games and AI:

Valius has the right idea. Any fighting game, and I mean any, the AI can easily be exploited if you can figure it out. The only way to truly get better at fighting games is to play against human opponents. Fighting the computer will introduce you to different characters moves, what to expect, speed etc... but you won't get too far just playing the CPU.

[Juno]

Originally Posted by valius

Stuff about fighting games:

No, that'd exceed the abilities of AI at this point in time. The CPU usually READS your controller and performs the move that counteracts that move, so it's an illusion of being more difficult, when in all actuality, the computer is simply performing moves counter to the ones you input the minute you input it. This is why sometimes beating the AI is simply spamming the punch or kick button (depending on your fighter of choice) over and over or just waiting for the AI to do a move and attack them.

Playing CPU does help reflexes and keeping the muscle memory for special moves... but it won't teach you how to form strategies against a real human opponent and the mindgames that you'd be using. Is she going to use that combo that ends with a low... oh wait, she ended with a mid! If I rush, he'll just use that dive move to knock me down again, so I have to use another way to close the distance.

You only truly get better by playing effective human opponents who can reason against your strats and you theirs.

Originally Posted by Wiki

The computer controlled opponents can predict counters easily, frequently inflict combos of around 7-10 hits from their starting attack, roll when knocked down almost every time making pounce attacks and ground throws incredibly rare and successfully input throw chains with virtually no gaps for players to escape even on the first stage (the difficulty of opponents still raises through each stage). The opponents also escape throws often and purposely stop attacking to throw counter attempts. The CPU will also throw a guarding player almost instantly making guarding against the computer not very effective.

Have you even played DOA4? I don't think you understand how hard it actually is.

[Junkie13]

DOA4 is a very hard fighting game. The combo's are easy to counter, but hard to respond to, you have to be quick and have many stratiges.

On topic.
Yeah, the game looks good. The Cgi screens look great, shall check out the in game pictures.

[downphoenix]

Well DOA4 is harder than the others, but the series as a whole has been casual, the AI isn't as sophisticated as games like VF.

[valius]

Originally Posted by Juno

Have you even played DOA4? I don't think you understand how hard it actually is.

I'm not saying it's always EASY to exploit the AI in all situations. That's just brutal AI, and I've definitely seen that for other fighters, so sometimes it's just dumb luck if you want to beat the AI for things like unlockables.

The real point I'm trying to make is that playing the AI does NOT help you learn to play against other people, because playing others are the only way to improve mindgames or strategies. You can gain reflexes and reactions from AI, but you don't truly get mindgames and strats without playing against a skilled player. There's real fun to be had to pit yourself against someone on your skill level.


I have more hope for Nintendo, if they're more willing to do deals like this for third parties. It's an interesting combination of people they've got on the team with Suda 51, Nintendo, and Tecmo/Grasshopper.