Conspiricy against HD-DVD?

[rbbdrooger]

Originally Posted by Power666

In a bit of irony, it was rumored that Toshiba was planning on releasing an HD-DVD player that used Cell.

That would have been hilarious. I would've loved too see what Sony Defence Force had to say about that...

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by Power666

Heh, the processor Sony was making at the factory wasn't mentioned. Wait for it.... it was..... the Cell!!!!11!!!!

Toshiba had a hand in it design and that factory was pretty much set up to make Cell chips for the PS3. Now that it is in the hands of Toshiba, it'll still likely make Cell chips but also several other Toshiba designs. Toshiba has an interesting IO chip for Cell that's not in the PS3 for example. In a bit of irony, it was rumored that Toshiba was planning on releasing an HD-DVD player that used Cell.

Hoooooold on.

(1) Sony didn't sell the entire factory to Toshiba. They sold Toshiba a 60% stake in it, making it a joint venture instead of being an all-Sony facility.

(2) The factory in question is reportedly not the only one producing Cell processors. There's actually 3 of them. The other two were already 60% Toshiba/40% Sony; this particular deal just brings the third plant in line with the rest.

[Sim88]

can it be? has power been pwnd?

[Power666]

Originally Posted by Icemage

Hoooooold on.

(1) Sony didn't sell the entire factory to Toshiba. They sold Toshiba a 60% stake in it, making it a joint venture instead of being an all-Sony facility.

This is true but Toshiba has majority control and now can claim ownership of it. Sony's involvement in this venture is likely so that they can continue to have a supply of 65nm Cell chips. Sony's (well more accurately Ken Kataurgi) was foolish enough to push for a new manufacturing facility but operate well below peak output. However, Sony isn't that foolish to cut off a major supply source without lining up a new supplier. By the end of this year, Sony is expected to out source Cell production to TSMC or to IBM for 45 nm Cell chips.

FYI - Toshiba didn't pry their way into the deal either, they were already a partner in this venture that Sony seemingly want to get out of now. Even though Toshiba was a partner, Sony owned the factory before the sale.

Originally Posted by Icemage

(2) The factory in question is reportedly not the only one producing Cell processors. There's actually 3 of them. The other two were already 60% Toshiba/40% Sony; this particular deal just brings the third plant in line with the rest.

Of course. IBM also has East Fishkill NY for their own Cell production and Toshiba has a plant in Yokohama capable of producing Cell for the PS3 in theory. Early PS3 prototypes used Cell chips from East Fishkill before the Sony's Nagasaki plant went online. While Toshiba has the facilities to produce Cell, I do not believe they've actually done production runs of Cell itself. All Cell chips today use silicone-on-insulator (SIO) technology which Toshiba does not have in any form. Instead, Toshiba manufactures some of the IO chips for Cell on a cheaper bulk process.

Toshiba is designing a Cell based chip called the SpursEngine to be made with their own facilities. The SpursEngine will only have four SPE units, making it useless for the PS3. Additionally, Toshiba looks to be taking over RSX production and can make them at either Yokohama or the formerly Sony plant at Nagasaki.

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by Power666

This is true but Toshiba has majority control and now can claim ownership of it. Sony's involvement in this venture is likely so that they can continue to have a supply of 65nm Cell chips. Sony's (well more accurately Ken Kataurgi) was foolish enough to push for a new manufacturing facility but operate well below peak output. However, Sony isn't that foolish to cut off a major supply source without lining up a new supplier. By the end of this year, Sony is expected to out source Cell production to TSMC or to IBM for 45 nm Cell chips.

I've heard the same rumors about a shift in production once Sony goes to 45nm. I guess we'll find out later this year.

FYI - Toshiba didn't pry their way into the deal either, they were already a partner in this venture that Sony seemingly want to get out of now. Even though Toshiba was a partner, Sony owned the factory before the sale.

This is putatively true, but it seems more like a change of heart on Sony's part. They aren't really in the business of producing microchips; my read is that they were trying to do it as part of their vertical integration philosophy, but it didn't pan out to be as efficient as they hoped.

Of course. IBM also has East Fishkill NY for their own Cell production and Toshiba has a plant in Yokohama capable of producing Cell for the PS3 in theory. Early PS3 prototypes used Cell chips from East Fishkill before the Sony's Nagasaki plant went online. While Toshiba has the facilities to produce Cell, I do not believe they've actually done production runs of Cell itself. All Cell chips today use silicone-on-insulator (SIO) technology which Toshiba does not have in any form. Instead, Toshiba manufactures some of the IO chips for Cell on a cheaper bulk process.

The rumors I've seen suggest that Sony is producing Cell at more than one facility aside from the Yokohama plant, and that Toshiba has already had some investiture at those facilities. Hard to research, though, unless you can read Japanese, but considering the low yields that were reportedly coming from that plant in the early days, those Cell processors for the early PS3s must have been coming from somewhere else.

Toshiba is designing a Cell based chip called the SpursEngine to be made with their own facilities. The SpursEngine will only have four SPE units, making it useless for the PS3. Additionally, Toshiba looks to be taking over RSX production and can make them at either Yokohama or the formerly Sony plant at Nagasaki.

Well, Toshiba did have quite a bit of input into the original design of the Cell, so any move on their part to use the design for other products would be a return-on-investment sort of situation. I've seen recent reports that they are getting ready to introduce some HDTVs that use modified Cell processors for instance.