Nintendo disappoints hardcore fans at E3

[valius]

See... I don't think you can assume to know that the Wiimote CAN'T ever be a "hardcore" controller, without knowing what every dev. studio with a plan for a Wii game has in store. There's tons of unannounced games for every platform and the Wii is not an exception... I agree that the Wiimote was made friendlier to casuals, but I can't agree that it was ONLY made for casuals, when there are games which are too "hardcore" (ugh term) to be casual (No More Heroes, Trauma Center, etc.) It CAN work. Don't get me wrong... I don't think the Wiimote alone is suited to every genre (especially not fighting games... thank goodness for GC and CC), but it can be done right and can be done right for a core game (there are people who would like the remote/nunchuck for FPSs, though I do know that some people refuse to change from their Dualshock/Xbox controller and do recognize that the preferred control scheme is VERY much up to the person using it). I also must agree with Yahtzee that there's also many games that are replacing stuff that should've been buttons for waggle which is NOT a good use of the Wiimote.


Anyway, as long as there are still "hardcore" games for the Wii like MadWorld, Conduit, Tenchu 4, Tales of Symphonia 2, and Fatal Frame, we'll be fine... there's still core games worth exploring.

[Leonidas]

Originally Posted by boffo

And I'd say it probably wouldn't be wise to hold out much hope for Nintendo changing their focus this generation. When you stop and look at it you kind of realize that the Wii was made for the casual market. They basically dumbed everything down so as to not intimidate the previous non-gamer [???] and most of those changes have seemingly held the console back in the 'hardcore' market.

If you mean the hardcore market was rapidy diminishing [returns-wise] and nintendo are marketing the wii to a broader audience, I agree sir.

Originally Posted by boffo

They chose to forego the processing power and graphics upgrades that MS and Sony went with. While graphics aren't everything it does prevent 3rd party companies from making direct ports of PS3 or 360 games. So that forces them to either go with a PS2 port or they have to remake the game from the ground up with the Wii in mind. However those companies are already spending millions to make the PS3 and 360 versions do they really want to spend millions more to make a seperate Wii version, especially when the top 3 selling Wii games list includes both Wii Play and Mario Party?

Um, especially when the Wii gets more third party games and sells more third party games than the other two platforms?

The answer is yes.

Originally Posted by boffo

Obviously their online policies have made a big difference too. Playing online can be something really intimidating for the non-gamer but the hardcore gamer seems to have really taken to online gaming. However once again Nintendo's policies seem to lean much more towards the non-gamer. In most cases they have skipped online play at all or severely gimped the potential a game has for online play, ala Smash Brothers.?

Wrong.

Originally Posted by boffo

I think Animal Crossing gives them one last chance to show that they care about online gaming

Nintendo have cared since the Gamecube. One last chance? Pff, give me a break.

Originally Posted by boffo

I so if they screw it up I wouldn't expect any further online commitment from them until at least their next console.

LOL

Originally Posted by boffo

The Wii Remote while once being hailed as innovative has thus far proven to be nothing more than a controller where half the buttons have been replaced by waggle motions.

No.

(Explain to me how Super Monkey Ball Wii works with a traditional controller. Ready? GO!)

Originally Posted by boffo

Perhaps MotionPlus can change that but I still don't see it taking off.

LOL

Originally Posted by boffo

So once again they appeal to the non-gamer by making their controller look less intimidating. If you don't usually play games and see a PS3 or 360 controller with all it's buttons vs. a Wiimote which one would they be more likely to inclined to pick up? The main problem here is that everyone except Nintendo seems to feel forced into having motion controls in their games and not a lot of them have seemed all that innovative or even worthwhile. If more companies followed Nintendo's lead in games like Mario Galaxy where they had limited motion control, or games like Smash and Kart where they offer Cube and Classic controller support I think you'd see a few more hardcore games.

So sadly, if you're waiting for Nintendo to shift more focus to the 'hardcore' I think you'll be in for a long wait because it's really not the type of game that the Wii was built to focus on.

Nintendo have never been about pandering to the 'hardcore', you're thinking of Sony.


yawn

[boffo]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

Um, especially when the Wii gets more third party games and sells more third party games than the other two platforms?

The answer is yes.

And yet very few of them seem to bother to take the time or spend the money to make a seperate version of games they are also making for the PS3, 360, or even PS2.

You always like to talk about how great the Wii is and how there is nothing wrong with the online capabilities, yet you never bother to back that up with any sort of facts that support your argument. Care to explain how the Wii online is even close to comparable to what is being offered on either the 360 or PS3?

I've never played Super Monkey Ball Wii so I'm not familiar with the controls. However one example of a game doesn't exactly impress me with showing how revolutionary the Wiimote is. Sure there are a few games that are bound to use it in ways that a traditional controller can't match, but in the overwhelming majority most games just use motion to replace button presses.

Good that you laugh because my opinion of MotonPlus is different from yours, but there is no evidence to suggest that it's an accessory that is going to be the next big thing. It'll make a big difference when they include it as a part of the controller that comes with their next console, but for now it's just an add-on accessory. And the history of add-on accessories released during any consoles lifecycle isn't very favourable. Until we see an upcoming release list that has dozens of MotionPlus games on it, it will remain as nothing more than a demonstration of what the Wiimote should have been.

And I wasn't saying anything about Nintendo changing focus or anything along those lines just that the Wii was built primarily as a casual gaming machine. If you're expecting to see them suddenly change their tune and cater to the hardcore gamer it isn't going to happen with the Wii. And I fully understand why they've done it and unlike others I'm not complaining about it. After the retail 'success' of the Cube they had to do something to turn their fortunes around. Why not leave the hardcore gamers to their hardcore systems and fill a big void in the market?

[Leonidas]

Originally Posted by boffo

And yet very few of them seem to bother to take the time or spend the money to make a seperate version of games they are also making for the PS3, 360, or even PS2.

Good.

Originally Posted by boffo

You always like to talk about how great the Wii is and how there is nothing wrong with the online capabilities, yet you never bother to back that up with any sort of facts that support your argument. Care to explain how the Wii online is even close to comparable to what is being offered on either the 360 or PS3?

On the Microsoft 360, you can play videogames online with people around the world. [Costs $]
On the Sony Playstation 3, you can play videogames online with people around the world.
On the Nintendo Wii, you can play videogames online with people around the world.

Originally Posted by boffo

I've never played Super Monkey Ball Wii so I'm not familiar with the controls. However one example of a game doesn't exactly impress me with showing how revolutionary the Wiimote is. Sure there are a few games that are bound to use it in ways that a traditional controller can't match, but in the overwhelming majority most games just use motion to replace button presses.

Motion control can be more intuitive than buttons even in traditional games, for instance, peeking around corners by twisting the nunchuk in MoHH2 [giving the player an extra degree of movement in a dynamic way] or even ADD stuff like cutting a log in Mario Party.

boffo, motion controls are forever, why complain about them til next generation? [Besides, motion control is cool. Disagree? Try cutting someone apart in NMH]

Originally Posted by boffo

Good that you laugh because my opinion of MotonPlus is different from yours, but there is no evidence to suggest that it's an accessory that is going to be the next big thing. It'll make a big difference when they include it as a part of the controller that comes with their next console, but for now it's just an add-on accessory. And the history of add-on accessories released during any consoles lifecycle isn't very favourable.

Stop. This is the Wii, and the first 5(!!!) accessories [Nunchuck, Guitar, Zapper, Balance Board, Wheel] have all sold like shit off a stick, and are all still getting support. Even third party add-ons [] like the Nyko Perfect Shot are selling.

If MotionPlus, [Packed in with WiiSports 2] the first example of true 1:1 motion control on the console everybody already owns doesn't take off, shoot me in the face.

Originally Posted by boffo

Until we see an upcoming release list that has dozens

Sigh.

(MotionPlus is the new rumblepak. Think about it.)

Originally Posted by boffo

of MotionPlus games on it, it will remain as nothing more than a demonstration of what the Wiimote should have been.

And I wasn't saying anything about Nintendo changing focus or anything along those lines just that the Wii was built primarily as a casual gaming machine. If you're expecting to see them suddenly change their tune and cater to the hardcore gamer it isn't going to happen with the Wii.

This is where most peoples 'teh wii is kiddy' arguments fall apart imo. Are you saying that the Wii has no hardcore games and never will?

Or that the Wii has hardcore games//alongside a more 'casual' focus?

Originally Posted by boffo

And I fully understand why they've done it and unlike others I'm not complaining about it. After the retail 'success' of the Cube

I've heard it made more money than the ps2.

Originally Posted by boffo

they had to do something to turn their fortunes around. Why not leave the hardcore gamers to their hardcore systems and fill a big void in the market?

To me, 360 and yes, even PS3 owners aren't hardcore, just a byproduct of the videogame industry.

Sony muscled their way into the market (with shitty inferior hardware [and a GODAWFUL controller that they're STILL using?!?!?]) by marketing their wares as the 'cool' alternative to nintendo (Riding on Sega's [failed] coattails) got lucky and then... Woops, dropped the ball!

Xbox began as a shitty PC in a giant box and is now Bill Gates' [Near entirely US based] army of robot children, who will never be convinced that a pointer is x1000 times faster and accurate than a jelly analog stick or that a 30% failure rate is actually really bad. I call this XBB, or 'X-bot Blindess'.




LEONIDAS.

[codenamelenny]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

On the Microsoft 360, you can play videogames online with people around the world. [Costs $]
On the Sony Playstation 3, you can play videogames online with people around the world.
On the Nintendo Wii, you can play videogames online with people around the world.

online is my biggest problems with the wii(I don't have many). Friend codes are bad but it's even worse when you can't play a game because it's so laggy and I should be able to talk to my friends(they addressed this).

[Spindel]

Only hardcore controller is the TAC-2, and most of the kinds don't even know what a TAC-2 is.

YOU ARE NOT A HARDCORE GAMER THEN!!!! HAHAHA!!!!

[tuggy]

First off the Wii has the worst online game play ever. You can not choose who you want to play and you need friend codes in order to pick who you want to play. There is no addition downloadable content for games (small storage space) and no online chat yet.

The control idea was great and I think it will revolutionize the video game industry since you can do a ton of things with it. You can use it sideways like your driving. You can point it and swing it like your fighting with swards and flick it like you threw a football. Also using one of the wii guns (zapper or light gun) and use it as a real gun. There are so many ways to use it that I could go on and on, but I will leave it at this.

Third party developers problem they have is because they think all Nintendo Wii owners only buy Nintendo games and games with Wii on it like Wii sports play and music. So when they do make a game they make it as cheap as possible and with bad graphics. Also with bad controls too. They think they can do a half ass job and Nintendo wii owners will buy it. Then developers see there game did not sell well and they say fuck it we are not wasting time making games for the Wii if no one is going to buy it. So lets wait till Conduit, Call of Duty, and Deadly Creatures come out to see if games that were properly develop will sell well on the Wii. That will be the test to see if it is really developers fault or if it is just the audience the Wii has.

Last but not least I think Nintendo targeting the casual gaming market is because most of there games series are casual games. Mario galaxy, Mario Kart, Mario party, Mario Striker, and Wario world. Those will sell naturally to anyone since it has the name Mario on it and if you play it they are casual type game. The Wii series games are totally casual. Like Wii music were you can hit any note when ever you want and you will not get it any points off. Wii sports is the easiest sport game in the world. They take no skill at all and if you can swing the controller, then you can play Wii sports. So the bottom line is I do not think Nintendo wanted to be casual, but they made all these casual games and made there self casual. Now people love the Mario and Wii series games that are casual sell well, then people stereo type the Wii as a casual system. Also becuase older people are playing Wii too

[AkaneJones]

Hold on a minute, I don't think its as bad as some people make it out. To be honest it seems more like a mistake of Nintendo trying to do too much too fast. Look at last year, first there was GC holders Zelda:TP & Super Paper Mario to act as filler at the beginning. Then they spammed us with Mario Strikers, Metroid Prime, Battalion Wars, Fire Emblem, Mario Galaxy, and SSBBrawl(which had to be held back 2 months). But now we've reached a point where it takes time to make a game again.

This is further complicated by the fact the Nintendo had to put one of its "Hardcore" up and coming title this year on hold Disaster: Day of Crisis. As well as the fact Nintendo has budgeted to many DS projects into the mix. I mean Nintendo could stop making DS games for a year and it'd be all right. Its already has 50 million and 2 games coming up without Nintendo's help. I'd actually prefer if they switch many of their DS projects to Wii at the moment.

However that's not to say Nintendo is doing nothing right now. I mean look at this years list of Nintendo games, forgetting Brawl for the moment.
1) Mario Kart Wii(the true "Hardcore" title this year)
2) Animal Crossing: City Life(Not really "Hardcore" but one Nintendo's biggies)
3) Wario Land: Shake It!(Could be "Hardcore" but seems more like Yoshi Story, in depth)
4) Mario Sluggers(Yes, I expected it. Nintendo's isn't giving us Mario Golf/Tennis so other companies can sell their games. Because which is going to sell better We Love Golf or Mario Golf)
5) Wii Sports Resort(The first true Wii Sports sequel)
6) What ever that other game was

Why does it look like that? Well simple Disaster: Day of Crisis was supposed to be on that list, but boom Chinese earthquake. Funny how of all the questions people asked Nintendo at E3 none where about Disaster:DoC. In fact if you added that to the list it wouldn't look different for last years. Metroid=Mario Kart, Mario Galaxy=Animal Crossing, Brawl=Disaster, Fire Emblem=Wario Land, Mario Strikers=Mario Sluggers

But I suppose people want New info at gaming convention. On the other hand no one had anything new at E3. They already spilled it before hand. The results were FFXIII on 360 was the biggest thing there. Still this death-nell for Nintendo and "Hardcore" gaming is crap. It's just hype from the anti-Nintendo FPS PS360 crowd. I guess we'll just have to wait for that Pikmin 3 and Kid Icaris info won't we.